#48 Creating, Conquering, and Knowing Worthiness

Today's Guest: Billy Atwell

Today, I interview Billy Atwell, a friend and colleague for many years. He has his own podcast, Unshakable Self-Confidence, and during its first season, he interviewed me. Billy is special to me because he’s had a front-row seat in seeing me develop past my own fear and into the confidence that I get to share with you today!

So now I’m thrilled to swap roles and explore Billy’s personal journey. Unfortunately, Billy experienced abuse in his past relationships which really affected the way he thought and the way he saw himself. He didn’t like what was happening, but he didn’t know how to fix it. But in the heat of the moment, at risk of losing his life, he kicked into gear and fought his way out of the situation and relationship.

He no longer had the option to allow fear to control his thoughts and decisions. He began a new journey of healing, rediscovering himself and understanding the thought patterns that had previously shaped his life.

Now, he’s found comfort and inspiration from exploring his own spirituality, creativity, and deeper connections with others. His own podcast keeps him busy sharing in discussions about these topics, ever-evolving, healing, and developing as he and his guests learn from each other.


Billy Atwell is the Founder and Host of The Unshakable Self-Confidence Podcast. After nearly being strangled to death in 2012 at the end of another abusive relationship, Billy set off on a quest to answer the question, “How did this happen to me again?” After years of studying historical spiritual archives, reading hundreds of classic New Thought books, and interviewing over 400 individuals, he has found the answer: it all comes down to your internal beliefs about yourself.

Through his Top 200 Apple ranking podcast, digital monthly magazine, and inspirational YouTube channel, Billy guides people from around the world through the difficult process of personal transformation, so they, too, can live their lives with Unshakable Self-Confidence.

Get Billy’s FREE digital monthly magazine: www.unshakableselfconfidence.com/magazine

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Transcript of Interview

Find Your Voice, Change Your Life Podcast

Podcast Host: Dr. Doreen Downing

Free Guide to Fearless Speaking: Doreen7steps.com


Episode #48 Billy Atwell


“Creating, Conquering, and Knowing Worthiness”



(00:35) Dr. Doreen Downing 

Hi, this is Dr. Doreen Downing. I’m host of the Find Your Voice, Change Your Life podcast. Each week, I invite guests who have some story to tell about either not having had a voice or struggling with public speaking, or in some ways feeling like they needed to go through some kind of transformation to be able to express themselves fully and confidently. Today, I get to speak with one of my friends, Billy Atwell. Billy has his own podcast. So, make sure to check that out, Unshakable Confidence. I’ve been a guest on his, a couple of times already. Billy also interviews people like I do to bring out the real story, not just how you’ve recovered something, but actually how you struggled with it. Because I think that’s what most of us want to hear is that it is possible to go through some kind of difficulty find your way through and be able to find whatever it is that you’re looking for, like fulfillment probably in some way. So, welcome, Billy.


(01:51) Billy Atwell 

Hi, Doreen. How are you?


(01:53) Dr. Doreen Downing 

Oh, I’m so happy. I know, our conversation is always open up to deep realms and that’s what I love about our togetherness.


(02:03) Billy Atwell 

I know, I had to find some free time to come on your show, my life has been busy. But I entered my sixth season and I’ve been sort of reflecting on six years of podcasting, and hundreds and hundreds of conversations and you recommend the show that used to be called Fear Not. You were like on the very first year, we’ve known each other for a really long time and we’ve had multiple conversations. I was talking to someone the other day, it’s like it’s very rare when you get to see someone, because you were still struggling with your fear when I first met you. That’s part, to share what fear you were going through and what were you doing to get through it. Here you are now, you’re totally doing your own podcast and I find it fascinating and blessed that I’ve been able to see growth in another human being in such a– I don’t know, does that make sense? It’s just because sometimes we don’t really get those experiences, we see people, they’re sort of trapped in their narratives, and we don’t really get to see people grow so much and I don’t know. So, thank you for that.


(03:11) Dr. Doreen Downing 

Yes, well. Also, sometimes we see people who are already achieved that we don’t get to see the journey. I’d have to say that you’ve been one of my mentors. I used to listen to Fear Not all the time, because I got lots of tips, and now with Unshakable Confidence, it feels like that’s kind of your journey too, going from fear to confidence and helping people to do that. But I just want to say today, I was interviewed on another podcast, and I referenced something that I learned from you, and I use it all the time.


(03:52) Billy Atwell 

What is it? I’m curious?


(03:56) Dr. Doreen Downing 

For my listeners, it’s going to be very important, because that’s my message. Face, and its about-facing fear, embrace and that’s about embracing fear not running away from it, and replace, which means having strategies or some way of finding your voice. So, right face, embrace, replace.


(04:23) Billy Atwell 



(04:24) Dr. Doreen Downing 

That’s yours.


(04:26) Billy Atwell 

Yeah. It’s nice to see that you’ve made that your own. Wow, that made my day thanks. That I’ve had an impact. You know, it’s funny and I’m sure you’ve experienced this too. It’s like sometimes you don’t– because we’re on a mic. We’re just talking usually to another individual and we don’t really have a sense of how much impact we’re having. By just using our voice and having the courage to use our voice and to allow others to feel not alone, that they’re not the only ones who feel stifled or a slave to fear and thinking that they can’t express themselves in whatever way that that needs to be expressed. So, that’s nice. That’s nice, what a nice thing to do in the afternoon. Cool.


(05:18) Dr. Doreen Downing 

So, it ripples, Billy, your message, my message, our environments where we invite people like a podcast to learn. So, to come back to you, because you have a story and it has to do with your own struggle about being more of who you are today. If we look back on your own journey, maybe begin with some of the early struggles that you had before you became a podcast host.


(05:51) Billy Atwell 

Yeah. So, again, I think maybe because it’s the six-year or during the show, and I’ve come so far, and I’m in another evolutionary period in the show, which has always been reflective of my own, like you said, it’s a documentary of my own personal transformation, that’s kind of smack me, smack dab, in this week, as I’ve sort of done that. It’s like, I went back and listened to some of those episodes and I was, who is that Billy. I just wish I could go and be like, it’s going to be okay. But where I’m at right now is I’m facing a new fear, a different challenge of using my voice. When we met, and we’ve had multiple conversations, a lot of my transformation was around being in abusive, violent relationships, and dealing with the fear construct of not being worthy, and the inherited negative self-image route like, you referenced my book, the face that replaced it, embrace it, it’s like, we all have these ancestral current patterns. Nine years ago, back in, I don’t even know, dates, time is irrelevant to me these days. But it was back in May of 2013. At the end of my second abusive relationship, I started to notice patterns, I had started to be like, I’m not doing this again, I started to see, that started to click the things were starting to repeat. I was like, I’m not going down that again. I kind of stood up for myself and the next thing I knew was being thrown up against the wall and strangled to death. So, that was sort of the catalytic moment of what became eventually a couple of years later, fear not this exploration of we become what we think about. That’s gone through the journey of getting to the negative story that we all have and we all have them. But dealing with those sense of just worthiness in myself that I’d inherited from my family, particularly because I was raised by women, who were also in abusive relationships with alcoholics and all that stuff, too. So, these patterns, and like I mentioned, you were early on in the journey. One of the things I learned about, we’re not shaped by our genetics, but our environment was Professor Bruce Lipton. He came on the show in the first year too. This is where all this came in. So, I’ve really broken free from that, I moved out of that house this last summer that I had been in for 22 years that I went through both of those relationships, and I’m kind of in a new environment, I’m standing on my own two feet now. I’ve kind of dealt with all those negative voices. But then I’m here now and I’m in this cycle again. I am not, by any means calling that a complaint. It’s just it’s now time to face the fear that I also grew up with in using my voice as an artist. So, that’s where I’ve been is this concept of, it’s still the universal rule and it’s whether you take it from the Buddhist or the Christian scripture or whatever. It’s like, we become what we think about, right, no one’s heard that. So, that’s where I’m at. It’s like, okay, so what have I been thinking? What about all these limiting beliefs that are squelching my creativity and that creative voice that’s been given to me by the Divine to express in the traditional realms of creativity, fine art, if you will. So, that’s where I’ve been, and it’s just sort of– but now I know the process. I’m not afraid of it. I examined my thoughts, everything that I’ve learned, and it’s kind of the show’s logo is a Phoenix and so it’s just– I’m on a new level. The rules are still the same, the actions, the requirements for transformation are the same. It’s just I know, solidly now, how to do it. So, therefore, it’s just like, let’s get to work. I’m not trapped in the victim state anymore. It’s just, oh, that’s right, I’m becoming what I’m thinking about and listen to all those voices that have been carrying with me since my childhood, which is the exact voice, the exact ancestral karmic pattern would be anytime I created something and would show it to my mother, she’d be like, well, who would want that? So that literally has been the voice that has systematically kept me from creating, whether I’ve created entrepreneurial aspects, or that’s part of the voice that kept me in abusive relationships, because how would I take care of myself? Some really much, much more aware of that need to really pay attention to what those negative voices and to turn your back onto it and listen to the other voice that is also there to saying the same thing, which is, you are one, you have the power, you have the ability, it’s a gift, flourish. There’s no need to fear. So, that’s where I’ve been at. I know that was sort of a long answer and I do apologize, but that’s literally where I’ve been at. It’s just sort of all of a sudden, it’s like that part of me. That was that nine-year journey. Everything that kind of came with the show just was like, okay, I don’t have the training wheels on I’ve graduated, if that makes any sense. We go through these things. We got to learn the process, we got a trial and error, and then all sudden, it’s like, do I continue to act like I don’t know how this world works, and how your voice works and it’s all alignment, or whether you listen to the negative voice or the positive voice because we have choices. Then there’s no one to blame but me on which voice I lay now. I didn’t understand that at the beginning of the journey, and I know most people don’t. So, that’s where the show has been going is like, I get it, I have understood it. But the only thing I can teach you is the truth and it is we become what we think about and it’s just which voice are you going to be listening to, the negative or the positive?


(12:17) Dr. Doreen Downing 

Wow, your right, so much? Well, one of the things I’m taking right away here is that the journey you’ve been on in podcasting, from the very beginning, when we first met, is that when you invite people to share who they are their struggle, their transformation, you get to learn and you’ve been learning, and I’ve been learning. Today, I’m learning from you. Well, I learned from you long time ago, too. But the whole sense of that your particular evolution has happened by the people that you bring into your circle, bring into your podcast to listen to. What I hear is that you really did listen to all the wisdom that you surrounded yourself with, in a way it’s like not just reading books, we get to bring in people who have real-life experiences and can speak about it in a way that not only are we sharing with our listeners, but that we get to learn. So, that’s one thing I get from you. The other thing that I get from you, which I think is really important for the audience’s listening, wow, you just don’t get to one point and say, that’s my voice. Yay, I found my voice and now let’s go out in the world. It is ever-evolving. That is such a huge message. It’s not just one voice inside of us. Although the sense that you just said is that, well, we need to discern whether it’s negative, or whether it’s positive. So, just bottom line, how do we do that? So that would be something I guess, that goes along with the face. I think you talked about “face it”, at least we have to face what’s going on inside of what we are saying to ourselves because what we are saying to ourselves is a voice.


(14:16) Billy Atwell 

Yeah, we have to face it and really to evolve that is we have to awaken from the dream that we’ve been conditioned, the fearful dream, we’re conditioned to believe in the negative voice as being the sole truth of who we are. Until you sort of disrupt that pattern and realize that really that you have a negative choice and a positive voice and both are equal. I think this is the other thing too that I think I would really like to leave with your audience because I remember struggling in the beginning too, I must be positive. I must be positive and oh my gosh, I’m not positive and I’m not worthy. I’m not good enough. I must be doing something wrong. You’re not.


(15:02) Dr. Doreen Downing 

Say more, say more.


(15:04) Billy Atwell 

Well, so I’ve been reading a lot of William Blake, and like Ralph Waldo Emerson. So, right now, there’s this passage of William Blake where he says, I do not consider the just or the wicked to be in supreme states. But each a state of sleep that the soul may fall into in its deadly dreams of good and evil, as it left paradise falling the serpent. You see this in Scripture and traditional Christian Scripture, we have this concept that God is only good and there’s an evil devil and it’s not this energy for, some whether you call it God, Universal Mind, quantum field, you know me I don’t, I’ll pass it to God like Gandhi teaches it’s this thing that most people call God but have a misconception is that it’s all things. It is the cursing and the blessings, I kill; I make alive. When you let go of the guilt, and judgment, or even the superiority, like I must be positive, because it’s much more superior than negative, that’s another part of a trap that I’ve discovered. It’s like, you don’t fight with the fear, you don’t struggle it you don’t resist it, you just ignore it. Then you embrace the new narrative and you bounce back and forth, of course, is my journey because you’ve got to trust in it, you’ve got to see some evidence of it. But I really learned that that’s also part of the struggle, and my own struggle just because if I wasn’t thinking positive, then again, I was still attaching my self-worth to. I’m not thinking positive. So, therefore, I’m not worthy. You know, and that comes from a lot of traditional Christian theological things that Pervaiz, they are just worldwide. I mean, even in other religions, too, you see, it’s just, these are the ideals, but you’ll never attain them because you’re not worthy, and it’s like, unraveling all these things and letting go and just being like, Wait, positive or negative, I get a choice. They’re both valid. They’re both given an equal measurement. It’s just what kind of consciousness do you want to reside in and that’s taken me a long time to understand that. But that’s where I am. That’s kind of where I’m at now, too. It’s like, all right, I am– like Lord Byron said, “I am the captain of my fate. I am the captain of my soul,” until you stop blaming the world. Alan Watts has got a great quote. He’s a Buddhist and he’s like, “there are two kinds of people. Either those who see themselves as victims of the world, or those who see them as the world.” When you give up the victim, and I was a victim, justifiably so, I mean, a lot of abuse, a lot of violence in my experience. But that all came from the conditioning. You can’t hang on to that, and adopt into the new, confident consciousness because the two can’t blend, there is it’s one or the other. When you bounce back and forth, that’s kind of like Limbo. That’s where a lot of torture and suffering comes from. As well as just being in your own personal hell, but it’s that voice. I don’t know, I just haven’t really– you got to figure it out for yourself because I’m sure people are like what is he talking about? But it’s like Buddha said, don’t take my word for it, go prove yourself and that’s the only way and wherever you are, just start the journey and it’ll unfold naturally. That’s another, it’s guaranteed unfold if you just engage in the journey, so–


(19:02) Dr. Doreen Downing 

Yeah, well, I really get, I think people are listening to the actual “it’s a choice”. There’s one extreme or the other extreme and I’m ready to ask, who’s the one who’s listening to the positive or the negative? Talk more about that aspect of ourselves.


(19:29) Billy Atwell 

So, you know what I’ve learned in my research, I don’t know if this is a video or not, but I’ve read, I’ve studied early on Buddhism and Hinduism and Christianity and like Joseph Campbell, and really what we all are on if we can just get rid of the concept of William Blake’s just like “the good and evil”. If we quit fighting that and just see that we’re the mask of God and that it’s the divine within you. The ultimate continual eternal dreamer, dreaming dreams of good and evil, and you get to choose. That’s really all that I’ve discovered and that’s where your power is, it’s like, you will dream, you are dreaming, you are creating. The Uber Sean teaches us, the Creator created the creation, poured itself into the creation and if the creation can understand this becomes the creator in the world. This thing that most people call God is all things. It dreams of good dreams, goods of evil, but you get to choose this is the concept of freewill I set before you, life and death and choose. That’s not easy in the beginning to accept. It doesn’t make you superior. Like William Blake, I don’t consider the just or the wicked to be in supreme states. It’s just the way this thing we call life on earth “works”. It’s the voice inside of you. That is all things. It’s not a good voice and an evil voice. It’s all possibilities. Like Buddha teaches us from the stream of consciousness, filter out the positive, and you’re suffering will end. All you have to do for your listeners is just be still and see the options, and then develop your courage within your divine, inherent being and being like, I thank you for that negative option. But I’m going to decline. I’m going over here, and I’m going to stay firm to that and it will pass because your hill has come to pass, we don’t realize that we are the creators of our own nightmares through those, by attaching to those negative voices, and repeating them over and over and over again, like a prayer or a mantra. We have to change our prayers and mantras. That’s all.


(22:04) Dr. Doreen Downing 

Right, we’re going with my question was that there’s a sense of, and you’ve used consciousness, and you’ve just used divine being, and I call it the essential self, the essence of who we are. That essence to me is not good or bad. It’s not positive or negative is just the pureness of beingness. That’s what you’re talking about, I think is the same thing, if whatever we call it, it’s the divine. But I think that’s where awareness is, that our consciousness is in the ability to look out from essence, look out from the Divine, and then making those choices because some part of us has to be making a choice.


(22:51) Billy Atwell 

Yeah, and it’s all internal. I really love Rumi, and one of my favorite things that’s a little bit more esoteric, like Gandhi says, be the change you wish to see in the world. He didn’t say change the world. He says, be the change you wish to see in the world. Because when you learn from Rumi, Rumi says yesterday, I was foolish, because I tried to change the world. Today, I am wise, because I changed myself, because what appears without is really within, and the world, like you said, to look at the world, and to examine it really should only be seen as to what am I believing the world to be. That may be really super deep for everyone. But that’s still the truth. I cannot not say the truth. So, again, it’s just to see the people in there, and they’re asleep to the dream or whatever and then if there’s someone in your life that is doing that all they’re doing is reflecting back part of your negative voice. So, instead of engaging in them, and fighting with them, or blaming them, for the circumstances of your life, you examine your own thoughts, your internal thoughts. As far as I have learned, at this point, from all the research and using my own life as an experiment Doreen, it’s just, it’s all internal. If you can just examine your thoughts, and there’s lots of ways to help you do that, of course. But it all goes back into what am I Believing? Right? In Proverbs 23:7, it says, as a man thinketh in his heart, so does he become



(24:39) Dr. Doreen Downing 

I like the direction you point people to is to your heart.


(24:44) Billy Atwell 

Yeah. That’s the portal to the divine.


924:50) Dr. Doreen Downing 

You also said stillness get very, very still and that grounds you in a sense of, I think a wider expansive awareness, deeper awareness.


(25:03) Billy Atwell 

Yeah, when you’re still, what you do is you don’t fight with a negative thought you don’t fight with a positive thought you just allow it all to be. By being still, like in the Buddhist texts that I’ve learned, the whole concept of meditating still is to detach from all possible dreams. It’s kind of like the metaphor of Jesus being in the storm, everyone’s running around going a storm and Jesus is like, he’s chill, because he realizes he is the storm and the storm is all things. But he also knows that he’s not the storm as well, like he’s not a slave to it. He’s not a slave to the illusion. So, when you be like Buddha, or you be like Christ in your meditation practice, and you be still, then you’re not constantly grabbing towards something for validation or to be. Then from there, like Buddha said, when you realize that there is a buffet of consciousness, then go back in. But you’ve got to detach from your addiction, to negative thoughts. If you want to go back, you’re perfectly fine. It’s God’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom of your choice. This is the part where you can’t go around judging people, you know. But that’s what I’ve learned to be still means just to detach from it all just enough to get perspective that you are the dreamer, and the observer and then you can go back and play the game with your own freewill. Then what do you want to create?


(26:45) Dr. Doreen Downing 

So, I’d like to bring it back to public speaking and being afraid and struggling with stage fright, and trying to apply some of our deeper concepts and awareness to that actual, somebody who says, well, dreams, who says that they are afraid that they’re afraid that people are going to judge them. I think what you’re saying is, it’s not just whether or not people are judging, it’s inside of yourself, you’re already judging yourself. I think that’s how we apply it to something specific, like the fear of public speaking.


(27:22) Billy Atwell 

Yeah, I mean, one of the ways that I got over my public speaking, because I tried Toastmasters and that helped. But I had a lot to say, and I just couldn’t get it all set in the three-minute time that’s traditional Toastmasters. But you could start there, for sure. Because you got to get up and there’s a lot of times where if you just raise your hand, you don’t even have to be a member, you can just go to the meeting and when they do, like, they’re open call to like, speak, you can just raise your hand go up, and then they’ll ask you a question, then you’ve got your three minutes to talk about that subject. That’s a great way to deal with that. I personally, after that, I was like, I went the acting route. Because I was also training at the time, before I did podcast, I wanted to be a voice actor. So, that helped me a lot, and people are judging you. That’s the thing. People are always going to judge you, they are always going to have opinion, whether good or bad. So, I know that may be the fear, but if you can just be like, okay, they’re going to judge me no matter what I do. It’s kind of like I’m damned if I do, and I’m damned if I don’t. So, why don’t you do?


(28:37) Dr. Doreen Downing 

Well, the why don’t you do, from the people that I work with, why don’t I do, I hear well, I’m going to make a fool of myself. I’m going to– everybody’s going to laugh at me. I’m going to miss out on the promotion, because my boss is going to see how stupid I am. So, there’s a lot of those kind of projected thoughts, negative limiting self-thoughts is what you’ve just said, actually.


(29:07) Billy Atwell 

They will experience that; they will laugh at you. They will. The point is because that’s your belief structure, it must come to be. The point is and like why the show was originally called Fear Not was in those moments, you’ve got to get up there and do it anyway. Because that’s the only way to move out of that thought pattern of, they’re going to laugh at me.


(29:30) Dr. Doreen Downing 

Well, that’s the face it right?


(29:32) Billy Atwell 

That’s the face it. When the show was called fear not it was not, don’t feel afraid. When I read that in the Bible, because in early on in the journey, I was like, what do you mean, don’t be afraid? How am I not supposed to feel afraid? But then when you read the Bible in Greek, and you translate the correct word, which is Phobos, it comes from Phobos, it means do not be afraid. It means when the fear comes, don’t withdraw and panic.


(29:59) Dr. Doreen Downing 

Oh, could you say that one more time because that right there is the nugget that I think people will take from this nice and concrete, say it one more time.


(30:09) Billy Atwell 

You will never move beyond where you are in your current negative believing and fear until you stand in the fear, and don’t withdraw from it. The show’s logo when it came to me in vision as a Phoenix, right? What is a Phoenix? A Phoenix must be burned to ash in order to get to the new level. That’s what fear is, if you can understand fear comes to you, at the most critical moment when you’re about to crush a threshold, and to a new level of consciousness, what happens we feel the fear, and we withdraw, and panic. What I’ve learned probably most from the Bible, especially those early days was, that’s not what the message says. It says, when you feel the fear, stand in that flame, and you will be cleansed and the sense of fear must acquiesce to you. Because if you act like Buddha, or Jesus, when they went through their testing in the wilderness, that’s the fear cycle. That’s all you need to know. No, this belongs to me, Buddha actually touched the ground and he was like, no, this is mine, with all the temptations of fear and self-doubt to get him to move. He did not and therefore he ascended. So, if you are wanting to be a public speaker, and you have the belief structure, that they’re going to laugh at you, they will until you get on the stage and do it. You just have to do it; you’re going to have to take my word for it. My voice mentor teacher, she called it grid car, getting ready to get ready. It’s a form of procrastination. Fear will get you to stay in a cycle of procrastination, because as long as you don’t stand in fear, you’re going to go through this karmic cycle and that’s why it feels like everything’s repeating. That’s why I kept being in abusive relationships. Because I was on that karmic negative belief about myself until I understood that when you get to that point, when you come back to the circle, the only way to break out of the circle is to stand in fear and then rise up to the new level.


(32:23) Dr. Doreen Downing 

What an image. That’s fabulous, I think people are able to relate to that even though it– because we’re coming to the end. Before we get there, really that whole sense of standing in it and then rising up rather than getting caught in this circle. I know you said stillness, but what can you tell people around how to stand in the fear or move towards it and stand in it? Because that’s where the transformation is? It sounds like.


(32:58) Billy Atwell 

Well, let’s keep it in public speaking, right? So, I didn’t get on stages, I got on stage in acting and I was doing scenes. There were scenes where I was running around my underwear, and I was nowhere near– I mean, when you met me, I was still very much exploring fear and very confident. All I can say is kind of just to reiterate, like really pounded into you, all you have to do is get on that stage, and you’re already casting a vote for confidence. You may not get it in that example, you may have to get on the stage 10,000 times. But like the Japanese proverb, get knocked down seven, fall down seven, get up eight, you must persist in the dream. That’s all I can tell you that you have to experience for yourself. But I can tell you if you get up, even in extreme situations of performing in your underwear, or being very vulnerable in emotional scenes. That’s not any different than public speaking, you get up in front of people, you’re going to feel the voice, you’re going to feel the fear, but you do it anyway. Then the next time you do it, fear has diminished, it’s still there in terms of like, huhuhu but then you do it again and it’s just like, hu, and then you do it again and it’s like hu, and then you do it again, you’re like, and then you do it again and you do it again and you do it again. Before you know it, you to have the experience of like, wait, how did I get here? Where did that fear go? That’s all I can tell you. That’s all I know. I know that through my own personal practice. But again, just to recap, like Buddha said, don’t take my word for it. Go prove it for yourself and then you will know then it will be game over because then it’s just like you said, ascension it’s just a never-ending story but then you master how to play the game and you’re like, oh, fear. I see you. I’m not buying what you’re selling today. It’s literally like that, fear will never go away. Fear will never go away, it’s what? How much of your power and belief structure are you giving to it, because it’ll always come to you at those critical moments, when you’re about to break through into a new level and all you have to do, and you’ll get there if you just do it and fail and do it again and fail until you start failing less and having more success. Then like, you can literally be like, oh, yeah, that’s a negative thought and I know what that negative thought was going to produce. So, I’m going to change my thinking right here right now in the moment. Then you journal or you do positive affirmations or you meditate or you visualize, and then you take control yourself sovereign.


(35:58) Dr. Doreen Downing 

Yeah, the whole sense of keep on moving into and through fear, it feels like what we’re saying, what I would add, is that the belief in what the possibility is inside of you, and it doesn’t get awakened until you take that step towards the fear. We’re talking about not just getting on a stage and doing a performance, it’s in having a conversation with a loved one. It’s sitting around at a dinner table telling a story, it’s raising your hand at a meeting, giving your opinion on a project. So, your voice is always with you and what we’re working on, what I’m working on is helping people find the inner strength. I think that’s one of the messages we’re giving today. It’s all within you all of it.


(36:53) Billy Atwell 

Yeah. If you just do the thing that you’re afraid to do, you’ll wake up one day, doing it like a habit on autopilot.


(37:05) Dr. Doreen Downing 

Yeah, every time you do it, it feels like you said, you put a stake in the ground for what is possible and for the strength. Because each time you approach it, you get stronger and stronger. It’s muscle, inner muscle, inner presence muscle Building is what we’re talking about. Oh, Billy, can we just go on and on. But I need to come to a close today. I know I already asked you to give one closing statement? How about what more.


(37:38) Billy Atwell 

I know that probably a lot of your listeners fear is smacking them in the face right going, don’t listen to what he says or Billy is special. Right? We see this all the time, right. Like you said earlier, when we see people who are already at that point, and we don’t see the full journey, fear is more, fear will jump on that and be like, they’re born under lucky star or that they were just born that way, you don’t see the journey. So, my only advice is that it can be done. I mean, I was almost strangled to death. With the two marriages put together it embodied almost 20 years of abuse. If I can do it, you can do it. There are people who have it worse than me, who have found this and have done it. There are people who have less and have done it. So, if nothing else today, when that voice is probably approaching you today, the voice of fear saying no, that’ll never happen for you. Red flags, pay attention, because that’s the lie. That’s the first lie. Then if you can do that, and just keep doing that, and then work with Doreen, or get on that stage, go find somewhere, go join Toastmasters, in terms of public speaking, just do it. It is the motion that will cause the transformation.


(39:11) Dr. Doreen Downing 

Yeah, the whole idea of listening to yourself listening to fear, but also the deeper belief and learning how to access the essence of what’s within which is for my messages where your power is, it’s in your essence. So, let’s find your essence so that we can speak from the essence of who you are. Thank you, Billy.


(39:36) Billy Atwell 

Yeah, my pleasure anytime.


(39:38) Dr. Doreen Downing 

Well, before we go, how do people find you?



(39:41) Billy Atwell 

Yeah, these days, I’m just focusing on my podcast, which is Unshakeable Self Confidence, Apple Spotify, all the platforms. There is a free magazine unshakeableselfconfidence.com\magazine, but I’m not sure if I’m going to do that. Like I said, I’m in the process of really focusing on what I want to do, what I don’t have to do and all that stuff, but at least I show up six days a week on the show and I share everything. I don’t have courses or anything like that. I don’t do that. So, that’s the best way to find me and connect and learn more if you want.


(40:18) Dr. Doreen Downing 

Good, I highly recommend that because obviously, just from today, people can find how you are filled with wealth. You’re full of rich treasures of information and wisdom. Thank you again. Thank you, Billy.


(41:03) Billy Atwell 

My pleasure.

Also listen on…

7 STEP GUIDE TO FEARLESS SPEAKINGPodcast host, Dr. Doreen Downing, helps people find their voice so they can overcome anxiety, be confident, and speak without fear.

Get started now on your journey to your authentic voice by downloading my Free 7 Step Guide to Fearless Speakingdoreen7steps.com.

7 STEP GUIDE TO FEARLESS SPEAKINGPodcast host, Dr. Doreen Downing, helps people find their voice so they can overcome anxiety, be confident, and speak without fear.

Get started now on your journey to your authentic voice by downloading my Free 7 Step Guide to Fearless Speakingdoreen7steps.com.