#157 When Success Isn’t Enough: Finding the Voice You Lost

Transcript of Interview

Find Your Voice, Change Your Life Podcast

Podcast Host: Dr. Doreen Downing

Free Guide to Fearless Speaking: Doreen7steps.com

Episode # 156 Dr. Julie Lopez

“When Success Isn’t Enough: Finding the Voice You Lost”

 

(00:05) Doreen Downing: Hi, this is Dr. Doreen Downing, host of the Find Your Voice, Change Your Life podcast. I have Dr. Julie Lopez with me today, a brand-new friend, and as I’m getting to know her, so will you.

Hi, Julie.

Julie Lopez: Hi. How are you?

Doreen Downing: Oh, well, I’m recovering from a cold, but as you said, it sounds like my voice is in working order, so I think we’re good to go.

Julie Lopez: Yes, perfect. Sounds good.

Doreen Downing: Let me read the bio you sent in.

Dr. Julie Lopez delights in guiding high achievers, executives, and CEOs through the unconscious advantage so they can move aside hidden roadblocks to help with wealth and personal alignment. She is an author, speaker, entrepreneur, and human systems expert, particularly versed in working with implicit memory.

Oh, Julie, that is packed with good stuff. I know you just waved it across, but what do you think when you hear that back?

(01:17) Julie Lopez: Oh, it’s just a lot—a long career. I think what I’m looking forward to today is talking more about my human journey, my own struggles with my authentic voice versus a performative voice.

I think I was blessed with—or adapted to—using a performative voice throughout my developmental years. I’m looking forward to the conversation.

(01:46) Doreen Downing: Thank you for opening that up. Let’s start with that idea. I know you just said blessed—I’d like to hear more about what that means.

As a psychologist looking back, what were those formative years like? Did we feel confident or not? That’s where the voice is either heard and welcomed—applauded even—or not.

Somewhere along the line, we head into school, then into social circles. Do our peers accept us? Do they reject us? That whole journey is important. So whatever part of that you want to focus on, whatever stories you want to tell about your early life—go ahead.

(02:35) Julie Lopez: Thank you for all that, because it is so influential in developing a voice. The main thing I want to share, and then a little bit about how it impacted me, is that I was relinquished by my biological family at birth. I did not grow up with anyone I was biologically related to. I was adopted at three months old after spending the first three months of my life in an orphanage.

Speaking up feels like a critical part of the story I’d like to tell about finding my authentic voice. What I’ve come to know through my three decades of rigorous study about human development, specifically around people who have had that relinquishment experience, is that I was laser-focused on not being relinquished again.

(03:41) Doreen Downing: Oh, that runs shivers in me. That feels like the real truth right there. Power.

(03:51) Julie Lopez: Yes, from pain. Right? From pain and that innate instinct we all have to survive. Think about little babies when they’re born. We don’t have teeth, we don’t know how to walk, we don’t have a bank account. We’re pretty much screwed if a caregiver doesn’t care for us.

It is literally primal to make sure we’re going to survive. That’s how we’re all built. Deep down somewhere—and this is where it probably gets more into my personal passion around implicit memory, which no one really knows what that is—I’d be happy to talk about it later. But it’s these deep, unconscious codes that live inside all of us.

There was this innate drive to survive and essentially to not be rejected.

Doreen, do you want me to call you Dr. Doreen? Dr. Downing?

(05:09) Doreen Downing: I think if I can call you Julie, you can—

Julie Lopez: Yes, I always tell everyone to call me Julie, please. I think that’s why I waved away the bio you read, because sometimes all those fancy things make it harder to relate in a human way.

(05:10) Doreen Downing: Yeah.

(05:10) Julie Lopez: I was blessed with the ability to articulate ideas. I was blessed with a high intelligence. I was blessed with the family that adopted me. They were very encouraging of my voice and my skills. But what I didn’t realize until I was in my twenties is that a lot of my performative behavior was deeply driven by that early experience.

That very significant experience I had in my prenatal life and then up until the time I was adopted—those early months when I didn’t have a primary caregiver. I was one of 20 babies in a maternal home. It laser-focused me on getting a gold star.

A little gold star for everything. I was very articulate. I was focused on things that weren’t authentic to me. We would call it a psychologist. I had an external locus of control to the max. I wasn’t as connected to what I wanted, who I was like answering. Those questions were impossible for me to answer.

(06:32) Doreen Downing: I get it. I really get it. When you just did this—people who were listening didn’t see—Julie put the gold star on her forehead, really just pointed to herself. This whole idea of “look at me, look at me.” The instinct to say, “Pick me. Look at me. I’m good. I’m going to be good.”

(06:58) Julie Lopez: But don’t, don’t, don’t give me away.

Doreen Downing: Yes.

Julie Lopez: Oh, right. I know. It still makes me sad.

Doreen Downing: Yes, me too.

Julie Lopez: I feel it. I have empathy.

(07:12) Doreen Downing: Yes.

(07:13) Julie Lopez: Of course, that affected what I invested my energy in—speaking. Because as an adaptive mechanism, I actually wasn’t rejected by anybody.

I was everything to everybody. I was part of the jocks, the nerds, the popular people, the shy people, the druggies. I was part of all the groups.

(07:41) Doreen Downing: Who was I? Oh my gosh. I’ve never seen such a mirror of my life. I look forward to what we’re going to uncover here today. It’s uncovering for me too.

Thank you. What an image you just painted—somebody who could adapt, fit in, and be accepted.

Julie Lopez: Yes.

Doreen Downing: Be accepted by everybody.

(08:08) Julie Lopez: Yes. What do they say? When you’re everything to everyone, you’re nothing to nobody. Something like that.

(08:16) Doreen Downing: Yes. Well, who are you to yourself, let’s say?

(08:20) Julie Lopez: Secondary to survival for me.

(08:25) Doreen Downing: So in terms of voice, then, let’s go back to that idea of being everything for everybody. What does that mean for voice? Lots of voices, huh?

(08:35) Julie Lopez: So many voices, adapted to what my audience wants to hear.I was excited about being on your podcast because you have this passion for helping people find their voice. If someone looked at me from age zero to 20—I’d say about 22, when I started doing some much deeper introspective work—they would’ve said, Oh, she’s completely articulate. She’s in the student government. She’s the captain of the swim team. She speaks up for this. She’s an athlete.

Everything, Doreen. But I was not using my authentic voice for anything. I didn’t even know what it was. Honestly, I couldn’t have even spoken from that place.

Somewhere way deep down, I looked extremely confident. I had the skills. I had practiced speaking, giving speeches, and delivering, but I wasn’t speaking confidently about myself. If that makes sense.

(09:42) Doreen Downing: Oh, it is, like I said, it’s a mirror. I got awards for being the most all-around person in school.

I was the homecoming queen. I was the head of the cheerleading squad. So, I understand what it’s like to be out there and be popular and yet be disconnected. Not even know that there’s a disconnection yet. Something must have happened that made you more aware that you were disconnected.

(10:22) Julie Lopez: I was an athlete and I was always looking for cues outside myself for what I should be doing, and what other degree to pick for my undergraduate studies than in engineering. As a female in the eighties, well, my parents and my teachers thought it was a good idea.

I didn’t even know what it was, and I did it because I could. You know what happens when your friend has been pinned underneath boulders and you get that danger messaging, suddenly the blood rushes to your arms. You can pick up a boulder you could never pick up before. I had that kind of intensity around success and performance, so I got through it, but I started having whispers of, “Gosh, I wonder if I’m ever going to do something I like? Am I ever going to focus my life in a way that I want,” just started in college.

I was like, whisper whispers, whisper whispers. But I still had to survive, right? In my mind, this was so unconscious, Doreen—this was just autopilot, like these little whispers. I knew sometimes I was really unhappy, but I was still performing. I was still performing.

I got my job out of school—a really fancy job that everyone thought was very successful.

Doreen Downing: What was that, by the way?

Julie Lopez: Oh, I was a consultant for what’s now called Accenture, Anderson Consulting. I got a high salary. I had a per diem. I was flying all around. I was 22, 23. The rules were different then, so I was flying my friends around. I had all the external things. But I wasn’t happy, and I knew it.

I was crying every day. I wasn’t crying from sadness because I still wasn’t conscious enough. I was crying because I was so bored. I kept thinking, “This doesn’t mean anything. I don’t even know what I’m doing here.” I was basically having an existential crisis.

This all started coming together over the course of four or five years. There were two moments that stand out. One was in college when I remember sitting outside under the stars with a friend, just praying for some kind of guidance. Looking back, I think I was asking for something from inside me instead of outside me—something authentic to me.

Another critical turning point was a trip I took to Spain. I was visiting friends from Anderson, now called Accenture, which is a global organization. I had made a lot of friends from Spain at our global training site, where we were for three years. On the plane there, I sat next to a psychiatrist.

That was important because I was on vacation, visiting people in different parts of Spain, traveling alone. I had train rides where I was journaling, and a lot of our conversation just stayed with me. I had started therapy years earlier because I was unhappy, and everything started coming to a head.

I had been introduced to what I’ve been studying for the last three years—non-talk-based therapies. Like many adopted people, the root of my struggle was before I had any conscious thought. That doesn’t develop until the hippocampus forms at three years of age. Everything was stored in my implicit memory, including those codes and any sense of what was going on in my body.

All these little seeds were planted over those five years, and it all came together on that trip to Spain. I came back, started researching what I could do, changed my career, and went back to school. Everything shifted.

I started making choices based on what was going on inside. I got a lot of these non-talk-based therapies that helped me change some of those codes driving my survival behavior.

(15:05) Doreen Downing: Oh, big breath for making space for all of what you’ve already shared. There’s so much more I’m going to ask about—this journey you’re taking, the choice, and what that then led you to.

But I’m going to take a quick break and make space for all of what I want to explore with you.

Julie Lopez: Sounds good.

Doreen Downing: Hi, we’re back now. I’m Dr. Doreen Downing, spending a wonderful time with Dr. Julie Lopez, exploring early childhood and, through her life, coming to terms with an unhappiness that wasn’t realized until she woke up—slowly. It sounds like it wasn’t an aha moment. It was more of a whisper.

That was the word you used, right? You had chosen a life based on external pressures but finally came to terms with those pressures, bringing forth a new life. You say you chose a new career and went back to school. Tell us about that.

(16:20) Julie Lopez: Wow, that was interesting and painful. It was exciting because I was finally picking something I wanted to do—something I was authentically interested in. A lot of that was driven by my whole experience of relinquishment, survival, perfectionism, and performative behavior.

But what was painful was that I didn’t really have my sea legs. Some of those forces, particularly my parents, were not proud of my choice.

I remember going to hear my father speak at a conference. He was so proud to have me there and introduced me as an engineer. But I was in my second year of graduate school. I said, “Oh, I’m actually studying something else.” He continued to talk about my engineering degree, working for this consulting company, and how I had traveled around the world. It was so painful.

The woman listening could see I was getting upset. I was trying not to make a scene. It was hard that she was more attuned to what was happening with me than my father was at that moment.

Things like that stick out in my mind—having to show up in the world with something that was of authentic interest to me and being true to myself in that way.

(17:47) Doreen Downing: But there was a little angel there, you saw?

(17:50) Julie Lopez: Yes.

Doreen Downing: Who was listening.

Julie Lopez: I know that made it so much more painful, but yes.

She really saw me, and I would say there is a feeling that’s very different from that performative posture I was so familiar with. As I started doing things that aligned with my interests, I became more and more familiar with that feeling.

It’s interesting because I see your work and all the great things you’re doing to help people find their confidence, learn how to really connect, and communicate what they want to communicate.

(19:40) Julie Lopez: Well, I can say now, after—gosh, this was 30 years ago—that this new life started for me. It has a visceral feeling, like an exhale. Like this is the right thing. It reverberates and resonates with me.What I would say about my journey is that before that moment, before this investment in being absolutely myself on the planet and even knowing what that is, all of my verbal skills were in the service of nothing real.

So I make a distinction between confidence and connection with my authentic voice, my authentic drives, and my authentic desires. That has been pivotal and important in my life.

What looked like confidence before that moment wasn’t, because I didn’t even know myself.

(19:20) Doreen Downing: Oh, I so hear you. Yes. My question is, what came to you about what was authentic? How did you—I’m pointing to my ears—how did you hear? But how did you know? What was the difference?

I notice that with my choices, my boundaries, what I engage in, and what I don’t engage in. Looking back, I feel a big piece of that was pulling up information in my nervous system that I had no explicit memory for. That allowed me to change the automatic drivers in my body that were compelling me to do things that undermined my authentic voice.

(20:46) Doreen Downing: Oh, absolutely. That’s what I’m talking about—identifying what feels more automatic versus what feels, in a sensorial way, real. You said a visceral way.

There’s a dropping down and finally knowing what authenticity feels like, what a voice that comes from a deeper sense of self feels like. That “this feels right” sense. You come to know, you come to say, “There it is or there it isn’t.” And then—can I make that choice? That’s courage, right? To step into a courageous voice. I call it more courageous confidence than just confidence.

I love that you said confidence can look and feel a certain way. Yay, I’m confident. But are we really courageously confident? It sounds like you know the difference now.

(22:00) Julie Lopez: I love that term. I might have to use that. Courageously confident.

(22:02) Doreen Downing: Yes, it is different.

So, moving on—having had that experience on stage with your dad, what have you learned? What are you doing now that helps others find who they are and the strength to be more of who they are, wherever they choose to do that?

(22:33) Julie Lopez: I am very passionate about this work with the unconscious. It is a part of memory that we don’t recall. It goes beyond the blind spot. With a traditional coach, they can see things you can’t see. But this—it’s literally unknown. Invisible to yourself and to any other person.

I know how to find those things in implicit memory, and I know how to change them. It has a whole range of applications, and it’s been exciting to do this work and develop in this way.

I’ve worked clinically for the past 30 years. More recently, in January, I’m launching a program for high achievers—CEOs, business owners—who are very driven but get to that point where they feel stuck.

They know what to do, they know how to do it, they’re able to do it, but they’re not doing it. People like that already have the drive, the intelligence, and the know-how. They need the ability to become their own master at identifying and changing implicit memory using the tools and techniques I offer.

That’s what I’m passionate about. Honestly, I want the whole world to know about this. That’s the book you mentioned in the intro—I’m an author. It’s all about implicit memory—what it is, how it works, and how we all have it.

Doreen Downing: What’s the title of the book, Julie?

Julie Lopez: It’s called Live Empowered: Rewire Your Implicit Memory to Thrive in Business, Love, and Life.

(24:15) Doreen Downing: Lovely. I really like that it’s more specific.

I know the neuroscientists Pittman and Carl, who did Rewire Your Anxious Brain, right? What you’re doing is—well, implicit memory is where your brain gets more anxious, so let’s go there.

(24:39) Julie Lopez: Yes. I could go pretty deep into this topic. I don’t want to bore your listeners, but I’m really into the science behind all of it.

By changing what’s in implicit memory, people can work toward specific goals or change something in their lives—whether it’s in business, relationships, or personal growth. But I’ve also seen incredible physical breakthroughs that correspond with what people come in for.

Since I mentioned I was performative and perfectionistic, I’ll share about a CEO I worked with. She came in knowing she was driving her C-suite crazy. She had been told multiple times she was too controlling, and she couldn’t help herself—getting into the details, making sure things were right. It impacted her personal life too, but she came in for her business.

She worked through all of this. We reworked some deep survival-level codes in her system.

But the cool thing, Doreen—psoriasis that she had for over 40 years cleared up completely.

She didn’t come to me saying, “I want to clear up my psoriasis,” but when we took the stress load down in her nervous system, it just cleared.

Doreen Downing: That is so cool.

Julie Lopez: Yes, it’s amazing. That’s what I’m into.

(26:14) Doreen Downing: Yes. I know listeners can hear you, but those watching can also see the spark when you talk about this. You radiate joy and excitement about what you offer people and the breakthroughs they experience.

Thank you. We’re coming near the end, and I’d like to give you an opportunity—there will be show notes, links to your books, and whatever you have to offer. But I want to open up space here at the end to take a breath and listen to this “now” moment.

What do you want to say before we close? A message to the audience?

(27:13) Julie Lopez: I’ve got it. Here’s the message, and it’s for everybody:

Our physical body, emotional body, psychological body, and spiritual body are incredible. They are resourced and capable of so much. They are sophisticated beyond what we realize.

Every single person has invisible codes that may be responsible for roadblocks, stuck places, or things they avoid. These codes can be found and changed. No one is broken. There is always hope. There’s a whole world of things you cannot see, but I promise you, they are there.

And I want to add a public service announcement. Adopted people are overrepresented in suicide statistics, in drug treatment programs, in residential treatment programs. Most adopted people carry implicit memory codes that shape their experience in ways they may not even recognize.

I want to change that story—for adopted people and for anyone who has inherited codes from their ancestors or childhood. That trapped, lost, hopeless place is something we can do something about.

(28:47) Doreen Downing: Right. A huge thank you—I can’t even find a big enough word. From all of my heart, my being, my soul, thank you so much, Julie, for being with me today.

(29:04) Julie Lopez: Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it, and I love the work you’re doing.

I’m actively involved in a Toastmasters club, and I feel like communication and our voice are the single most powerful tools we have in this very, very short time on the planet. I applaud you for raising so many people’s voices.

(29:26) Doreen Downing: Right. I like to say—from the boardroom to the bedroom, your voice is your most powerful tool.

Julie Lopez: I love it.

Doreen Downing: Yes, you can take that.

Julie Lopez: I love that.

Doreen Downing: Alright, bye-bye.