#156 Healing the Past to Build Stronger Relationships Today

Transcript of Interview

Find Your Voice, Change Your Life Podcast

Podcast Host: Dr. Doreen Downing

Free Guide to Fearless Speaking: Doreen7steps.com

Episode # 156 Robyn Smith

“Healing the Past to Build Stronger Relationships Today”

 

(00:00) Doreen Downing: Hi, this is Dr. Doreen Downing. I’m host of the Find Your Voice, Change Your Life Podcast.

Today, I get to introduce you to someone dear to my heart who really understands what relationships are about. As I read some of her bio and what she has in store for us today, I am so happy to have her here to share her story.

It touched me personally and my own journey to find a wonderful man that I’m now married to. We’ll talk more about how Robyn helps people find and enhance their relationships. She has a program called Rock Your Relationship Movement.

Hi, Robyn.

(00:54) Robyn Smith: Hi, Doreen. Thanks so much for having me. I’m excited to be here, and I know we’re going to have a juicy conversation.

(01:01) Doreen Downing: Juicy. Nice. I’ll read the bio.

Robyn Smith is an award-winning speaker and leading trauma, communication, and relationship coach for women. Founder of Rock Your Relationship Movement, she has helped thousands transform frustration into fulfillment by cultivating deeper, more conscious, and loving connections.

With her thriving 23-year marriage as inspiration, her approach goes beyond communication, reshaping how women experience love and connection.

As a certified master trauma coach, she specializes in helping clients break free from trauma and unhealthy patterns, restoring harmony within relationships and within themselves.

Oh, if I never had a conversation with you, I feel like I’m already learning and inspired. Thank you for writing it in such a way that it shows so much of who you are, what you do, and what people can get from you.

(02:32) Robyn Smith: Oh, my pleasure. Thanks for your feedback.

Doreen Downing: How do you feel when you hear it?

Robyn Smith: It sounds good to me too. I like my journey. I’ve learned a lot along the way, and I love what I do, so I’m quite proud to be where I am these days. Always learning more.

(02:54) Doreen Downing: Yes. Every moment is an opportunity to learn. What I’m doing today is presenting you as someone we can all learn from. What we like to do here first is take a peek at your history. Where were you born? What kind of family did you have?

In my opinion, as a psychologist, that’s where we first experience having a voice—or not. I always like to start with that foundation. Where did you start, and did you feel like you had a voice early on or not?

(03:44) Robyn Smith: I like that question, so the answer is yes, and I’ll share the context.

I was born in Los Angeles to my parents, who had one other child—my older brother. It was just the four of us, but they got divorced when I was about two and a half.

I was wanted. I had an easy birth. Everything was smooth in that way. There was some good and some not-so-good stuff that happened in my early years.

Another early trauma I’ll mention—because it’s something I only learned about maybe 12 years ago—is that when I was about five and a half months old, my parents went on a trip across the country and left me and my brother with our grandparents. They left us for two weeks.

Back then, Dr. Spock and other experts said it was fine. You could wean your child and leave them for two weeks when they were less than six months old.

That clicked some things into place for me when I learned about it. I was already studying relationships at that point, and I thought, “Oh, no wonder I’ve got all these issues.”

(05:08) Doreen Downing: Well, I think, yes. I just realized, and you pointed to it—that’s our first relationship.

(05:17) Robyn Smith: With your mother, especially. Even before you’re born, you’re relating, and she’s relating to you or not very much.

(05:31) Doreen Downing: Two things already stand out. You mentioned this abandonment. As adults, two weeks doesn’t seem long, but for a little baby—not even a toddler, just brand new in this world—it’s a different experience. A baby is saying, “Hello, who am I? Where am I? Who loves me? How do I survive?” and suddenly, the primary person who had been with them for nine months and then a few outside is gone.

The second thing is the divorce. They broke up.

(06:14) Robyn Smith: There’s a third one. In my early days, when my mother had knee surgery, it wasn’t like what they do now. It wasn’t arthroscopic. She was in the hospital for 10 days, and there was no visitation. When I was one and a half, she got knee surgery, and again, “Where’s Mom?” I couldn’t see her for 10 days. I had no way to make sense of that.

Then, the divorce a year later, just before I turned three. A few big breaks in the attachment bond happened early on. With my father, we stayed with my mom, and he moved—not very far away—but we always had a good relationship, so thank goodness for that. Some good things have come from it.

(07:17) Doreen Downing: With you being a relationship coach, you go deep into that first relationship—most likely with a mother or the primary caregiver. I don’t usually go this far back, but who carries that connection from conception? I haven’t thought about it much or talked about it, but I imagine it goes deep.

This womb, this space of protection, is like a chrysalis. We are inside, growing, and then we emerge into life.

(08:06) Robyn Smith: It’s such an important part of our growth. We develop so much during that time, but many people don’t have a protected feeling in the womb. There could be needles poking because the mother is unhealthy, blood infusions, toxins in the blood, drug use, starvation, or even abuse where she’s getting hurt.

She could have had an accident or surgery. So many things can happen in the womb that impact our sense of safety and feeling welcomed into the world. I’m grateful I didn’t have that, but I know many people do. I work with many people who do.

(08:48) Doreen Downing: Safety is so important. If we look at your early years, what about voice?

(08:59) Robyn Smith: I love that we’re on this topic because it was a big deal for me. I think I’ve shared a little with you, but I remember being very timid and having a very quiet voice.

As a child, I was thinking of another example as we were getting started. I’ll see if I can remember, but I sucked my thumb until I was eight. I had this security blanket, which I think was probably related to attachment issues. I was also smaller than all my friends, so I felt small. I acted small.

I wouldn’t speak up as much. I was quiet in class. I certainly wasn’t one of the boisterous kids. The distinct memory I have is the choir teacher coming around while we were singing. She would listen closely to each child, and I don’t think a peep came out of me. I mouthed the words, but I was so terrified I don’t think I was able to sing in front of her.

That’s just an example of my own fear and insecurity coming through—or not coming through—my voice. But on the other hand, my parents were very supportive. I felt loved, and I knew I was loved.

I remember later, probably around the same time in elementary school, when we were raised Jewish—lightly, loosely—and I didn’t want to get bat mitzvah-ed. I didn’t, and I was allowed to say no to that. I was really given a voice to say, “No, it’s not for me. I don’t want to go through all that.”

I was also allowed to say no in other ways. There’s a picture of me at five years old with a big knot on the side of my head. You know what happens when you don’t comb your hair? It was one big ball of hair sticking out. That was because I told my mother I didn’t want her brushing my hair, and she let me say no.

She probably felt embarrassed, but she let me have a voice in that. I didn’t want her to brush my hair, and she let me experience the consequences. I didn’t care or know about them at the time, but that happened. It wasn’t because we were impoverished or anything. It was just that I was allowed to have a voice. At home, I was given that freedom, but out in the world, I was scared to use it.

(11:30) Doreen Downing: One of the things I read was that you feel comfortable speaking up in situations where you know people, but not in others. There seems to be that same dynamic you’re talking about even now.

(11:49) Robyn Smith: Yes, I’m very cautious about what I say, to whom, and when. I still hold back sometimes in certain forums. I suppose it’s fear of being judged. In other places, I just speak my truth and get judged.

(12:10) Doreen Downing: I love what you just said about the two circumstances. I think this speaks to listeners who can relate—there are places where they feel more comfortable and confident and don’t care about being judged. Then there are places where they do.

In the places where you might be judged, what are the judgments you imagine others would have about you?

(12:43) Robyn Smith: In a professional group where maybe I don’t have the same level of training, I feel a little shy or insecure about what I know. Even if I have a strong opinion or something I want to contribute, sometimes I do, and sometimes I just hold back. I think, “What if I do it wrong? What if it’s clear I don’t know what I’m talking about?”

(13:09) Doreen Downing: So, there’s some measurement, some comparison.

(13:17) Robyn Smith: Yes, that’s right.

(13:18) Doreen Downing: Yes, I have that because, as a psychologist, there’s the traditional view of what psychologists are traditionally seen as. I feel like I’m more on the spiritual side—growing from the inside and from an essence of who you are, and it’s less about pathology.

I remember one of my clients, once I really learned more about mindfulness and dropping down into a deeper kind of listening, said, “This feels different.”

I think that’s the way in which a voice can come out from somebody like my clients or like you—when the environment feels welcoming, when it’s listening, when it’s interested. There’s something about finding the right environment so our voice feels fresh and flourishing.

(14:18) Robyn Smith: I 100% agree. For me, I’m sensitive to whether I’m being heard. I think it’s because of early trauma around that. I don’t like to speak if I know I’m not being heard. Even with my husband, if he’s distracted, I’ll just wait or ask him to stop what he’s doing.

I don’t like the feeling of somebody not listening to me. I create a lot of environments—friendships and groups—where there’s a safe container for listening. In my groups, I set that expectation. We don’t interrupt. We hold space with compassion and understanding as best we can.

I’m all for those kinds of spaces. But so often, I find myself in casual interactions where people aren’t tuned into that. There’s someone in my community who talks my head off every time I see him. It’s all about him. I find myself overwhelmed or uninterested, and I don’t want to spend time with him, even though he’s a lovely guy in many ways.

It’s just very one-sided. For me, I need to feel like there’s space for me to speak. I want to be invited or included. I don’t want to be interrupted or talked at.

(15:48) Doreen Downing: Talked at—yes. Talked with. I like that expression, the communicating with part of it. That’s something I really respect about you—you value relational connection.

Before we move on, I want to ask one more thing. You mentioned trauma. Are you referring to what you’ve already pointed to?

(16:30) Robyn Smith: Yes. In my world, trauma isn’t necessarily abuse or a car accident. It’s more about complex or developmental trauma—the things that happen when you don’t get your needs met, when you don’t feel heard or loved. The things I mentioned were types of trauma. Breaking the attachment bond—those moments were traumatic in their own way.

(16:59) Doreen Downing: That makes sense.

(17:00) Robyn Smith: Developmental trauma.

(17:02) Doreen Downing: Okay. It seems like your connection with another human being was abruptly cut.

Going back to voice—things like “Ah” or “Mama” or “Gaga,” those early sounds, are energy coming from you that is received, welcomed, and held. It wasn’t abuse. It wasn’t even neglect—not consciously.

(17:43) Robyn Smith: Yes.

(17:44) Doreen Downing: They weren’t saying, “We’re going to forget this kid.” No. You felt love. But there was something there. That speaks to what we’re talking about—how deep trauma can be.

(17:59) Robyn Smith: Yes. I want to pick up on something you said because it reminded me of another piece.

When I said I didn’t feel heard and that I think of that as trauma—what used to happen, and still happens, with my mother—I confronted her about it recently, maybe a year ago.

When I was a kid, she would get very laser-focused on something, like a crossword puzzle, something she’s always done. She would be doing that at the kitchen table or reading, and I’d be saying, “Mom. Mom. Mom, I’m talking to you!” And she wouldn’t hear me.

Her ears were closed in a way—not that she couldn’t hear, but it was like she just wasn’t there. It was so frustrating. I would get angry and say, “I’m talking to you!”

That feels related to what we’re talking about—having a voice and having space held for you to express it. She did support me in having a voice and boundaries, but at the same time, she unintentionally didn’t always hear me. She didn’t always attend to me in those ways.

That still happens sometimes, but we were able to talk about it. She acknowledged it, and my stepdad even said, “Yes, it happens to me too.” She just doesn’t hear sometimes.

Now she has hearing aids, but back then, it wasn’t about her hearing.

(19:30) Doreen Downing: Yes, she was so focused, and it wasn’t intentional.

(19:37) Robyn Smith: No, it wasn’t.

(19:39) Doreen Downing: Maybe subconsciously. I don’t know.

Robyn Smith: Yes, subconsciously.

(19:44) Doreen Downing: Okay. Let’s move through what happened as you started to take your place in the world. You probably went through school—

Anything else you want to say about this journey to becoming who you are today?

(20:01) Robyn Smith: What’s interesting is that I had a certain level of confidence. I started teaching little kid’s gymnastics when I was in sixth grade. I was a gymnast, and I taught them in our yard. I talked to their parents, charged a fee, and ran my own little program.

That was the beginning of me having a confident voice—knowing I could teach because I was older and knew what I was doing. That continued. Besides having jobs in high school and college, I became a yoga teacher before I even had formal yoga teacher training.

Back in the nineties, there weren’t many yoga teacher trainings. It wasn’t the thing it is today, but I just felt like, “I want to teach yoga. I love yoga.” That’s where I really started putting myself out there as a voice to be listened to by multiple people at once.

I had a good time doing it, although, as I shared with you earlier, I had challenges with speaking up. I have a belief that I don’t have a loud voice. I’m not a booming voice. I don’t project a lot, and it feels effortful to try, so I tend to be soft-spoken. It’s just easier.

As a child, I was often told I was mumbling and needed to speak up. I got told that a lot as a yoga teacher too. Not that I was mumbling, but, “Please raise your voice.” It doesn’t happen so much anymore, but it was something I heard often.

(21:53) Doreen Downing: One of my clients was a yoga teacher, and the only time she felt confident speaking was when she had her own eyes closed in front of the group, teaching from that space. Having all the eyes on her provoked a lot of anxiety.

Something you just said about being soft-spoken—I really appreciate that. The whole idea of “speak up” or “be more animated” or “use vocal variety”—I get that it’s important, especially for someone trying to make a point or speaking in a more performative way.

But I would love to see more of this—what was the book? Quiet in a Noisy World?

Robyn Smith: I don’t know that one.

Doreen Downing: That those of us who are quieter can be powerful too.

Robyn Smith: Yes.

Doreen Downing: You had a sense of yourself as someone with a gift and expertise, someone who could be in front of people—even other kids—and teach.

(23:12) Robyn Smith: As an adult, I started teaching yoga in my early twenties.

(23:19) Doreen Downing: Anything else about yoga and moving forward? How did you go from that? I mean, it’s a sensitive kind of profession. It requires an intuitive sense of your body and helping others find a deeper sense of themselves. There are different kinds of yoga, but I think the one you’re talking about is where we become more aware.

(23:49) Robyn Smith: Yes, I honestly feel that for me—and this is true in my current profession as well—the practice brings experience, and experience brings confidence.

As that happens, I take my seat in a more self-assured way. Over years of experience, I feel more confident that I know what I’m talking about. I’ve seen it, I’ve done it, I’ve been to lots of trainings. At some point, I did a ton of training, and that enabled me to speak from a stronger place.

(24:37) Doreen Downing: A stronger place—meaning, “I know what I know. I know how to talk about it. I know how to share it.”

Robyn Smith: Yes, but I still needed to speak up sometimes. That’s okay. I think confidence is more about what we’re talking about than volume.

(25:03) Doreen Downing: Absolutely. I’m glad you’re making that point so listeners hear that confidence isn’t about how loud you are or even how much you have to say. It’s about lining up with what you know inside yourself and feeling that kind of confidence.

Let’s go into relationships. How did you ever move into relationship counseling and coaching?

(25:29) Robyn Smith: As a yoga teacher, I got really interested in the philosophy of yoga and Buddhist philosophy first. I studied, did a lot of meditation retreats and trainings, and had my own practice. There was a lot of understanding about the psyche and how we relate to ourselves.

But I realized I was having relationship problems in my life—with colleagues, some friends. Nothing major, but I felt disturbed here and there. I also had a relationship that fell apart—I broke off my first engagement.

Even with all my training and understanding of the psyche through yoga and meditation, I needed more help. I wasn’t getting the relational support I needed through yoga and Buddhist teachings.

I got some counseling, but it didn’t help much. I tried different counselors over the years. I also studied nonviolent communication, and while it was cool, it wasn’t making the impact I was hoping for. I worked with that practice for a couple of years but still felt something was missing.

When I finally did a deeper dive into a two-year leadership and transformation training, that’s when it clicked. This really spoke to me. I had been teaching yoga for 18 years at that point and had started feeling like, “I’m not sure how long I’m going to keep doing this. I feel like there’s something else.”

I was really interested in psychology. My mother is a psychologist, now a psychoanalyst. My stepmother is a psychologist, and my stepfather is a social worker. It was around me. I learned a lot about relating from them.

I thought I might go back to school, but I never did. Instead, I became a coach. I found this program, and at first, I just went for myself because I knew I needed to heal my relationship with myself, my friendships, and my colleagues.

Then I thought, “I want to help people with this. This is great. I’m growing so much. I know I can help,” so I just started coaching people.

(28:10) Doreen Downing: Oh, I love the way the dots just connected—back to the time you were in your front yard, knowing you could teach gymnastics.

What you just said about what you provide now as a coach—I heard in the bio that you help people with relationships with each other but also with themselves. To me, I’m not sure if one comes before the other because both could be happening at the same time. It seems like that. What do you think?

(28:50) Robyn Smith: I think, ultimately, our relationship with ourselves informs and drives our relationships with others. But our early relationships with others shape how we feel about ourselves.

That’s how I see it. We learned—we created, or whatever the right word might be—beliefs and identity structures based on how we were treated and what our early circumstances were. Then those become the lenses we look through and shape how we create relationships. Am I answering the question?

(29:36) Doreen Downing: We’re talking about relationships. We’re talking about you—learning more about you and how you see people. What does relationship mean? Relationship to self is what you just said.

I get so involved in my curiosity with you that I forget to take a break. I need to take a quick break, and I’ll be right back.

(30:05) Robyn Smith: Good. Now, I remember the question too.

(30:11) Doreen Downing: Hi, we’re back with Robyn Smith, my guest today, talking about relationships—whether with ourselves, another person, or even our lives.

How do we come to that? Are we really with people, or are we just with ourselves, unaware of how we relate? What I’m realizing with you today, Robyn, is that how we relate is a big part of what our life is about.

Robyn has a whole history in yoga, and I really appreciate that. You said you had yoga—wait, were you teaching in the seventies?  I was teaching in the seventies. Believe it or not, in Malaysia, when I was in the Peace Corps. I learned and taught yoga for a while then. I deeply appreciate what it can do.

Now, we’re moving into Robyn as a relationship coach—learning what that actually looks like for her and how she helps people.

(31:19) Robyn Smith: Great. To pick up on where I was trying to go earlier before the break—so often, people come into my group program. As you said, the program is called Rock Your Relationship Immersion Program…

People come in wanting support with their relationships, and they absolutely get it. I give a lot of tools and coaching, but so often my clients say, “I realize this program is really about my relationship with myself.” I tell them, “Yes, you are right.” Even though I’m giving all these communication tools, teaching how to set boundaries, and all of that, it’s all rooted in deeper work.

The deepest work is what’s driving these issues—how I’m thinking about it, what I’m making it mean when he says that, or when that happens in my life. I really believe that core work is key.

Self-worth is a big part of it. I work with clients on that because it’s a real pillar of a healthy relationship—how we feel about and treat ourselves, whether we feel lovable or likable. Anxiety and these issues are connected to the nervous system. They shape our sense of self, how we perceive others, and what we think their words mean. It’s all colored by our early life experiences.

A common example I hear in my own relationship and from others—someone says something, maybe just pointing something out, and the other person takes it so personally. They think it’s criticism when it’s not. They say, “You’re criticizing me.” The other person says, “No, I’m not.” But that’s the lens they’re wearing.

They think, I do everything wrong in your eyes. I can’t do anything right. That comes from where they’ve been—probably criticized a lot in the past. So now, every little thing feels like a criticism, even when it’s not. We all do that to some extent until we do the work to release those layers. Then we can connect from the heart, from that deeper place we’ve been talking about.

(34:00) Doreen Downing: I feel like I could spend hours on this—relationship counseling, the ways I’ve worked with people, and how often we don’t truly listen to what the other person is saying.

How do we drop what we think they’re saying and listen from a deeper place? You mentioned the heart. How do you listen to your partner from your heart?

(34:32) Robyn Smith: I missed a little of what you said because it froze a little bit.

(34:35) Doreen Downing: I was saying how much I’m enjoying our conversation. It’s about this idea in relationships—what you were saying about listening to someone in a new way.

I think that’s probably what you teach. You talked about heart—how to listen without all the layers built up around how you think, what you believe, or what was said to you. To me, it feels like a fuller way of listening. It’s almost like yoga—the yoga of relationships or something.

(35:21) Robyn Smith: I used to use that term—”Yoga of relationships.” That’s what I called my work. But people thought I was talking about partner yoga, so I stopped using it.

(35:31) Doreen Downing: Yes, I certainly understand. We’re moving toward the end. Like I said, I’m enjoying this and could go on and on, but you have some programs and offers, and they’ll be in the show notes. If there’s anything you want to share about that now, go ahead.

(35:49) Robyn Smith: Depending on when you’re listening, I do a free communication training called The Connection Code. I give solid communication skills in an online, usually four-day event. Check that out because people get a lot out of it.

I also have my Connection Cure Checklist, a communication checklist. So many people struggle with communication, so I offer these free tools. In each one, I also peel back a layer of what might be underneath.

In the checklist, you’ll see skills for shifting patterns if you didn’t check the box—helping you understand what’s going on there. In the communication training, we also look a little deeper.

I hope you all take advantage of these free offerings and click on the link.

(36:43) Doreen Downing: Great. I want to open up this last bit of time together for you to reflect. Having been in this moment with me and the listeners, when you listen to yourself right now, what do you want to leave listeners with?

(37:15) Robyn Smith: The main thing that comes up is to value yourself and do the work—get the support you need to feel valuable and lovable, that will help you create a life you love, that supports having work you love, relationships that work for you, and a lifestyle that feels right.

It’s such a core pillar. We all deserve support, so I encourage everyone to get support from someone they trust and feel good with—to help them get to a place where they love their lives.

(37:55) Doreen Downing: I love what you just said—a place where you get to love your life. Thank you so much for being here and sharing.

Robyn Smith: My pleasure. Thanks for having me.